This interview transcript has been transcribed, edited and condensed for clarity by Evie (@doubleflutz), Tilda (@tequilda) and Niamh (@rivrdance).
Clara: Hello everyone, Clara here. Today, In The Loop is excited to bring you an interview with Javier Raya, Olympian, 2011 Spanish National Champion and member of the illustrious duo of Spanish skating Javi's. Welcome, Javi, and thanks for talking to us!
Javier: Thank you very much for having me here today!
Clara: So you've recently launched a really exciting, important platform called Skate Proud. Do you want to give us an introduction to what that is?
Javier: So Skate Proud is a platform, as you mentioned, and it's an idea I've had for a long time. The idea is basically trying to work towards [uniting] the LGBTQ+ figure skating community and especially to have a place of support, of sharing experiences. But also, very important, to take action towards a more inclusive sport, working hand to hand with institutions - which are the next steps we are planning. It's a platform that wants to be a safe space for everyone, whether you're a part of the LGBTQ+ community or you consider yourself a friend and ally of the community.
Clara: Fabulous, that sounds really timely. So over the past couple of weeks, you've been hosting some really interesting conversations in line with that idea of sharing experiences. You've talked with Guillaume Cizeron, Jorik Hendrickx, Jeremy Abbott, Maé-Bérénice Méité - many, many more. Who am I forgetting?
Javier: Eric Radford, the Olympic Champion in the Team Event and bronze [medallist] in Pairs. I feel that it's been crazy, I decided to start on the first of June, but really it started to build up as soon as I contacted my closest friends that I knew were part of the community as well or allies that wanted to support it, and in a week I was able to launch my first initiative which was the live chats on Instagram, giving them a chance to tell their story - which, to be honest, I don't think we've ever had anything like this before. It's a more relaxing experience than an interview of five minutes. It's more like a chat where they can really tell their experiences in a different, more relaxing way and to let us all know that how they grew up, how they probably struggled through different periods of their lives, and how they achieved success in their sport overcoming those struggles and becoming the people they are today. So I'm really excited, it's been a really positive response from everyone and I think it's a platform that in two weeks has already collected very amazing stories that are going to be useful for everyone who wants to listen and to have a place of support.
Clara: Absolutely, and the conversations have been really interesting and really inspirational. I'd encourage everyone to go listen to them, you can find them at @SkateProud on Twitter or Instagram, or at skateproud.com. So we're recording this on Friday the 19th [of June] which is, incidentally, Juneteenth, so please donate to your local Black Lives Matter organization if you can afford to do so. So, Javi, you recorded a really lovely interview with Karina Manta yesterday, where you went into your history, your experience at Sochi, how coming out publically turned you onto LGTBQ+ advocacy a lot more. So I'm going to encourage everyone to go listen to that as well, we'll include a link in the episode notes and you can find links on the Skate Proud and In The Loop social media feeds. Carrying on from that conversation, you chatted with Karina about your involvement with Madrid Pride was really what spurred you on to start thinking about LGBTQ+ advocacy. When and how did you come up with the idea for this kind of platform specifically?
Javier: So, as I mentioned in the chat yesterday, to go over the idea of how we got to this point, the time that I came out, I [posted] a picture with my boyfriend back in 2016 and it went so crazy all over the news because I turned out to be the only [currently competing] athlete and Olympian in Spain to come out. Out of all of the sports, so it's crazy to think about it, and I did not know. And, obviously, it was huge and later on, there were a lot of petitions for interviews so I started to get involved but I wasn't sure where I was heading to until nearly a year later. I was starting to understand the LGBTQ+ community, movement and Pride, and my presence, how important it is that I, as an athlete, have a voice and I am able to reach many more people. Now that I'm, let's say, more of an adult skater as well, and I have passed the period of the public impact of coming out and I'm at a point where I can help other figure skaters, I can help future generations, I can try to do my best to improve our sport and all the sports in general to be more diverse and inclusive and safer space for everyone. I feel this idea happened because of that, especially, and always, deep down, having this activism inside of me and trying to put it out there in a different way - also, being involved in the Olympic movement because I'm really involved with that institution. Lastly, what happened for [Skate Proud] to happen, these past two months [during COVID-19], I was thinking "Oh my god, this is a crisis, obviously, for everybody. But if you think about Pride Month, it's an important month - most people think it's a celebration but it's also a resource month financially for platforms," and so I felt that this year, because of this COVID crisis, it was going to be a struggle - and it is. [There are] all of these sponsors that are usually there because of Pride, and maybe this year they're not because there is no event happening outdoors with people. I felt that we needed to do an action instantly, for this month, to start and I felt that having an online platform, especially now with COVID, that can easily reach everybody now that we have more time and are more connected on our phones. It was the right thing to do, the right way to start, but I also want to mention that I don't want this to be just a one-month thing. This is a platform, but this is also a community that we are working as a team now with other figure skaters to take action and work towards different projects within Skate Proud and for the community.
Clara: So did you have the idea for Skate Proud and it's just, because of COVID-19, you ended up launching it a bit earlier? Or was this something that was purely born of the moment, so to speak?
Javier: COVID-19, it was sort of a confirmation or a sign that, you know, normally Pride is overcrowded, full of sponsors, full of media, full of platforms and this year is very different. There are no celebrations and I felt like it was the right moment to do it. It was the perfect time because of the situation we're all in, and I was also thinking of this, of doing something for the community, since Guillaume [Cizeron] just came out a few days before I started it. I think everything happens for a reason in life and this was just one thing after the other. [Myself] learning and understanding how I can help with activism, COVID, and also Guillaume's story - all of these things happened, and that's why we are here today, I'm happy for that.
Clara: So you've had, as we just mentioned, a whole load of conversations over the past two weeks. What do you think has struck you the most, if you look back on all of them together?
Javier: For me, it's been a very interesting time consuming, but also of growth as a person. Listening to their stories, I got to connect very much with most of the skaters and understanding what I've been through is very similar to what they've been through, the struggles. It's so common that most of us choosing a non-standard sport, we suffered bullying and discrimination, and even [for] people that are straight, such as Dylan [Moskovitch] or Maé[-Bérénice Méité], because of race or other factors. Figure Skating is such a beautiful sport and we chose it because we fell in love with it and it's kind of sad that growing up, all of these things happened because people were uneducated. There's a lot of bullying, which is something that needs to be fixed. It's not just related to sexual orientation, it's really about how in society when you choose a different sport that is not that common or [fits certain] stereotypes and that's what turns out to be such a struggle growing up, especially. This happens to all of us, I think this is a very common thing and it detached us all. So, of course, there are a lot of things to work on within institutions and the sport, but this is a very important part that I feel happened to most of us. That's what I can analyze out of all the chats we've had.
Clara: So you mentioned when it happened to you, your mom was really kickass and helped you solve it. [Javier laughs] Did you get any support from within the skating world when that was happening?
Javier: No. There were no tools and I don't think that there are still enough platforms or tools where you can find a place of support. Whether you can just text or call someone, I feel that's why this platform is important, I want this to be a place where younger skaters, whoever wants it, they can contact us and we can help each other and they have a place where they can feel supported. And I feel it's just because I know how some places, like Spain, we've improved so much and there's a lot of LGBTQ+ organizations outside of the sport, they have a very important role to help the community, stop bullying, stopping these aggressions in the street, and fighting for rights. But I feel like we need more organizations within the sport and also included in the institutions, where we have a team or an area that is dedicated to this. I feel this is where our work has to focus on, to be an LGBTQ+ community space working within our institutions for our athletes.
Clara: Absolutely, let's talk more about that. I'm sure you've got loads of ideas at the moment that you're working on for where you go next with the platform, what the immediate next steps are for the platform. Is there anything that you can share with us?
Javier: There is a lot of work we're trying to get done towards an approach with the ISU and federations from each country to really get on board. That's what it is, mainly. I feel like this is the next action that we are working on and we need to make sure that when there are statements, our community is represented and supported - clearly talking about sexual orientation, gender identity, and the LGBTQ+ community, and not just a really empty message that we do not consider to be addressing the issues properly and especially having a case of hate coming from an Olympic Champion [Alexei Yagudin], this being so recent, attacking our community.
Clara: Let's talk about that, I think we all saw that statement and your reaction to it. This is related to that, there's a sense that skaters are discouraged from being political, right? I think there's actually an ISU policy that actually says you're not meant to make political statements when you're at the Olympics, for example. Did you ever feel any pressure related to that, implicitly or explicitly, as it related to LGBTQ+ advocacy?
Javier: So, it's funny, I mentioned that at the Olympics they tell you many things and rules and you must understand them all because the Olympics is supposed to be an event that unites the entire world. The question is, where is the limit of what's political and what's human rights, correct? And I feel like, with Sochi, when I was there, I wasn't ready or publically out. And I wasn't at a point in my life with such a perspective that I could take any action or help, or talk publicly about anything. And of course, getting these messages, even knowing that I was gay and being like - just be careful and make sure you don't talk about this or make any action. It hurts you, even more, knowing that we were going there and it was such recent news about all the - against gay propaganda, that's what they called it.
Clara: Yes.
Javier: So, it was a contradictory situation but I feel from there we have improved to Pyeongchang. We have the example of the Canadian Olympic Committee, they even had the first Pride House within the Canada House at the Olympics, which is a big step.
Clara: Absolutely.
Javier: Also, for the International Olympic Committee to accept that. I think it's getting better, but as you see, a recent statement from the ISU which has a very good intention to address things but most of us, we don't feel clear support. And it's not clear, this doesn't mention sexual orientation, gender identity, the LGBTQ+ community. It's kind of repetitive, every time we say it.
Clara: Yeah.
Javier: But we need to mention it, because it's a whole different world and we can not just avoid that, because we are not represented at the moment. There is no one working for us, there is no department, there is nothing to address the recent situation and others, and to protect us. I feel at this point, we need to address a few things. Also in a positive way, we need to work hand to hand, because in the end it's our federation and I feel they need to listen to their athletes and we are a big community in figure skating. We are a big community that is showing with this platform, we're united and we're showing them that we want to work together. I think that it's a clear message.
Clara: Absolutely. I mean, let's name names right. So what we're talking about is Alexei Yagudin's comments about Adam Rippon, which I think-
Javier: Adam Rippon, exactly. And the entire wish for all of us to disappear from the earth or something like that.
Clara: Yeah. Which I think we can very safely categorize as overtly hateful and homophobic. In an ideal world, what kind of consequences would you like to see for that?
Javier: I am not the one who has to say that. Because this is something that - it's not just me, I am obviously creating this platform but I am not the only skater who represents Skate Proud. We are, as you see, all the skaters who participate, all the skaters that are trying to make a change - this, ultimately, is the ISU. We obviously think that the most important part that the ISU needs to do is protect us. And measurements need to be addressed and taken, and there is a lot of things to be done, not just towards this issue, which is obviously important, a specific issue. But there is also - there are programs that need to be worked on from within the ISU for inclusion, visibility, and support.
Clara: Absolutely.
Javier: So I feel that in that aspect, it is not my work to say what should be done, because I am not the one who represents Skate Proud. We are all together here, and ultimately it's the ISU who has to do their part in this aspect.
Clara: Sure. So let's talk about the ISU, then. You mentioned representation, and you mentioned the need for a lot of change institutionally. What do you think are the critical things that the ISU should be doing right now to make the space more inclusive?
Javier: I think Pride is a good opportunity, not just to celebrate, but to be an improvement in all the aspects for the community. I think you need to realize that the LGBT community needs to be represented and mentioned in the statements of inclusion, the same as racism was clearly mentioned and addressed. We need that as well, which I don't understand why it wasn't. I feel that's one first step because that's media, that's the communication, those are the words that we want the ISU to put out there. I think we need to be within those statements. And then, the other part is an approach to work hand to hand with the ISU and with each federation from its countries to have representative figure skaters that we have such as, big names like Guillaume, Eric Radford in Canada, Jorik Hendrickx in Belgium, Maé-Bérénice Méité in France. Whether they're from the community or friends and allies. I feel those are the following next steps. I feel, as I said many times, they need to get on board.
Clara: Absolutely.
Javier: They need to finally not be scared and really support what is right and support fully the inclusion and diversity, mentioning it and addressing it properly. I feel this is something the institutions need to finally be proud of and take action on.
Clara: What are the current safe-guards - I think you mentioned earlier that there's not really an avenue, for example, for young skaters maybe at a local or national level who might be facing homophobia. What mechanisms exist within the ISU today to deal with homophobia?
Javier: That I know, I don't know any, to be honest. I don't know any in the ISU or even within my federation or any other federation. To be honest, I think the only federation where I see clearly something is Skate Canada, the same as the Olympic Canadian Committee. How I know that, besides that I obviously live in Canada, I've been in touch with them. I know they have a department, I know there are people who are working for the LGBTQ+ community. I also know, and everybody who goes to check their website and their platforms, they will see that this month Skate Canada and the Canadian Olympic Committee, they've changed their logos, they're taking actions, they're sharing stories from their athletes' community, and they are giving them a voice. Something that the ISU could easily do.
Clara: Absolutely.
Javier: This month. It's important. It's not just a celebration, it's education. Coming from that, that would change everything. Because a younger figure skater that is struggling, in whichever country, at least have a platform they can reach. Imagine if this platform was not just Skate Proud, but was coming from within the International Skating Union. And they were able to reach out to a specific department and get all the support they need. Emotionally, and economically. Whether it is to be able to get support where he lives or to make a change, to be able to pursue his career as a skater, to move, to do anything that is needed. There are a lot of things that can be done to help future figure skating champions that may be struggling and may not make it, because of the lack of resources and support.
Clara: Absolutely, absolutely. And as soon as the institutions get involved, all of that becomes a lot more powerful, you're absolutely right. I guess in a similar vein when we think about trans athletes or gender non-conforming athletes, is there anything in place at the moment to support them being able to compete?
Javier: Well, to be honest, I know there are coming from the Olympics, from the International Olympic Committee, there are specifications about that, allowances, and I'm not really informed how deeply it is from the ISU. I actually personally don't have any examples of transgender figure skaters at the moment.
Clara: Yeah, at an international level, sure.
Javier: So I don't really know what the measurements are, and rules that they apply for that, and even if they are accepting. Probably I will understand that if there is a case, if there is someone, they will follow the path from the International Olympic Committee. But that's a good question, because not even myself, that I will say I am not very on top of all this, know what will happen with such a case. I feel we need to anticipate and the ISU needs to anticipate that because we need to make sure figure skating is a sport for everyone and there is not a barrier because there are no clear rules or clear specifications about that. So I think this is a very, very important question that of course, having a department that works on these matters will clearly make sure that everybody is included in figure skating.
Clara: You talked as well, I think, briefly with Karina [Manta] about representation within ISU as in having more openly out judges, officials, what have you. How important do you think that is in the scheme of things?
Javier: I think it will be great, and I know a few judges that are open within their circle, but never knew or know any that have spoken publicly and advocated. I wish during this month we are able to get their voices and their experiences as well, because it was such a great point from Karina to mention that somebody that is in power, that is basically giving you a score while competing, and we have obviously LGBTQ+ judges, that they take a step forward as well, and they share their story and they share their point of view. Because they are an influence for all of us as competitors, so I feel it will be such a great thing for the community, that we can count on them as well.
Clara: I guess where I'm going with this is, do you think when you look at all the judges or officials or members of the ISU who might be out to their circle but aren't necessarily publicly speaking out or using their position to speak out on these topics - do you think it's more about building their awareness of the role they can have or do you think it's also about the discomfort that they might feel about how they may be received if they do that?
Javier: I mean, I don't know all the cases and I don't know how deeply they get involved when they work with the institution, but I feel that it's important that no matter what's your position - a judge or part of the ISU or coach or skater - that we, as part of the community, we stand for our rights and we stand for our community. Because when there is something that is wrong we can not be silent because we don't want to lose our position or we don't want to get out of the way that it's supposed to be at the moment. Because if there is something that needs to be addressed, like this thing recently, everybody needs to speak out and say "hey, this is wrong" and it's not just the skaters saying this. It's a group of skaters, it's a group of coaches, it's a group of judges, that we're part of a community and we want to feel that we have this support and that we're protected from within our international federation. I feel that for the judges and people - the power of the skating community - they have to speak up and help because it will be honest to the skating community, to the LGBT community, and especially to themselves and their values. If they do not fight for what they think is right for us, then they're basically betraying themselves because they're not supporting their own selves, you know?
Clara: Yeah.
Javier: If they were in a similar position. I feel that, if we start accepting hate and we start accepting discrimination or we don't do anything, I feel we are just going nowhere.
Clara: Sure.
Javier: And I feel that that's where, not just us from Skate Proud, everyone needs to get on board.
Clara: Have you ever considered becoming one of those judges or people of power? [Javier laughs.]
Javier: I don't care about power, I just like to do the good thing, and help people so I don't know if this will be taken me or Skate Proud into a closer position with the ISU when they decide they have to address things and include us but I think that we are trying our best to make this a better and safer sport.
Clara: I hope so too, fingers crossed. I wanted to talk, also, a little bit about stereotypes, and gender stereotypes and assumptions about heterosexuality, so Eric, Jorik, and Jeremy all mentioned being concerned that coming out would negatively affect the way judges would evaluate their skating, right? Did you personally ever fear that coming out would have an impact on how you were scored?
Javier: To be honest, no. I think it also depends on what country you come from. I mean at one point, when I published the picture... love is a great power, and it's above everything and I feel that's what made me take the step forward, sure. That personal picture, that personal life... so I didn't think twice about what could be happening to my career because I don't think... truly, the way I've been grown up, and I've been educated, I've never had to think that whatever I wanted to do or believe in should affect my job or my skating, so I was never second-doubting about things because I always knew I had my support had home, and I knew this was a great power.
Clara: Why do you think it's such a common concern?
Javier: The bias and discrimination, and all that? Because it exists, it's true. What happens is that there's a stereotype. There is this idea of it has to be done a certain way and a skater has to be a certain way and there is a lot of room to work towards this inclusion and diversity and can translate into the judging system, and other different standards that can be evaluated while in a competition that will encourage to a more fair and equal judgment instead of the standard, and the basic ideal of what figure skaters should be - to appreciate the differences from everyone.
Clara: Absolutely, and Maé as well, when you talked to her as well spoke very powerfully about how the sport has this sort of narrow conception of what femininity looks like.
Javier: Yeah, Maé's amazing. Maé is on top of that and I feel that Maé is a great example, and is a great friend for so many years - is a great example of an athlete that doesn't fit in the standard figure skater model - female figure skater - and because she's tough and she's worked so hard, is at the top level of international figure skating, breaking barriers and breaking all of these stereotypes and I feel that she has struggled more to get certain scores, and it's true. As I say, she needs to be perfect in the technical aspect, otherwise, she's not as appreciated in the components side because that doesn't fit into what is believed to be a standard female figure skater, and I feel that Maé is an example of why there is such a difference in the scores when she has many good qualities that are not appreciated in the other part of the scores, and it’s great. I think she's bringing that forward and is one of the greatest examples we have now-days.
Clara: Yeah, she's so strong, and she speaks about it so well. So, I guess she's such a great example for the gender side, and so I was wondering on the orientation side. You said luckily, you didn't really feel that yourself. Do you know of any skaters skating today that sort of feel pressured to skate 'straight' or, I guess, 'more masculine,' again more air quotes, because of those biases?
Javier: So saying that yeah. That was apart of the conversations that a lot of the skaters, probably including myself, have put in a barrier to express fully ourselves, and fit a masculine model when we are competing or skating because we don't want to look too 'feminine' when we are a male skater, or what's called toxic masculinity, because why? Because you know you're doing figure skating and you don't want to be looked at as very feminine, or called gay or whatever. That's a problem, it comes from [social] problems, and skating problems. I feel this is a big part too of what happens when you feel about discrimination and the LGBTQ+ community, things that need to be addressed are that we need to encourage skaters to be themselves, and express fully themselves without trying to fit a standard, and that standard can be the example of Maé or can be an example of any other skater that I feel like we can make good examples of the skaters that, mostly at the end of their skating career, were able to reach their maximum potential, skating to truly open themselves to the music they wanted to skate, to the style they wanted to skate, the way artistically they wanted to skate and I feel that is what makes it reach the skating programs and feels like the audience, and everyone can see a big difference when it happens, so that's what I think should be encouraged.
Clara: I guess in that same vein, all disciplines but especially pairs and ice dance have this idea of compulsory heterosexuality that's encoded in them, so in ice dance, men and women can't swap the steps in the pattern, there are very specific rules about costumes, siblings that dance together are sort of perceived in a slightly more lukewarm way because the assumption is that you're meant to have this steamy romantic relationship with your partner. Do you feel this needs to be changed? Do you have any thoughts about how that would happen?
Javier: I feel that what is important is that it all will happen when institutions get fully involved, and put this in their agenda and departments and work with us, hand-to-hand and acknowledge our existence and support us for who we are and not avoid the conversation, clearly like that.
Clara: I think that's a concise and true answer.
Javier: That [summarises] the entire chat today. [Clara laughs.]
Clara: Do you think we will ever have same-sex ice dance or pairs?
Javier: It should happen, we should create it. It's a sport, there should be different disciplines, why not? You could be so impressed how maybe two girls, or two guys - the different things they can do on the ice, and we see sometimes at skating shows and it's beautiful and I feel it could be a different category and a part of figure skating to see same-sex couples on the ice. Why not? It's time to break the girl and boy romance stereotype as well. It's too traditional [laughs.]
Clara: Let's get silly, who would your dream same-sex pairs team be?
Javier: Oh, girl. That's kind of funny, I don't know. I could tell you one of my good skating friends, but I'll keep it to when it's possible.
Clara: Okay, okay. [Both laugh.]
Javier: Would be funny for sure, and I would love it. It could be very interesting as well, it's not a funny joke. This could be something, why not?
Clara: Yeah, absolutely, and technically the elements would be different. [Javier: Exactly] It could be super interesting. So you have representatives from all of these different roles within the figure skating universe, you have also had Karina come on board, and as a fellow woman, that's super exciting for me. In general, there seem to be more men than women that are out within the figure skating world is my impression.
Javier: We don't have that many voices from women.
Clara: Do you think that's to do with how figure skating thinks about gender and femininity?
Javier: There is more queer women, there's more people form the community but the same thing that the stereotype affects guys because of the thought of every guy is gay, the same applies to women in figure skating. There is not such voices or stories of them coming out and speaking, so that makes it even harder for them to be themself and talk about it, and it's exactly unbelievable but that's another barrier in an opposite way.
Clara: Absolutely, and I guess that's why Karina coming on board is going to be important, it's going to be super exciting.
Javier: It's super nice, yeah.
Clara: Fab. So look, you've been super patient about me asking you all about LGBTQ issues. Outside of all of this exciting stuff that's going to happen with Skate Pride, what are your plans for the future? Admittedly, coronavirus is still raging, but show skating? Coaching? Activism? Competing? What's the plan?
Javier: Oh, I have a lot of things going on in my life. [Both laugh.] Don't even ask me that question, I am doing a lot of things and I feel that my passion for skating, whichever way, it will continue, and this period I came up with this opportunity to be involved in a different way for a community within skating and I feel I'm so happy with the response so I can not tell you about my future as I'm still working on myself, [Clara: Sure.] and the direction that I'm going but of course, skating is always in the front line.
Clara: Okay, so we'll keep an eye on it, it's a moving target.
Javier: Thank you.
Clara: Perfect, yeah. So, as you said, we're really hoping you'll get some engagement from the institutions to start making meaningful changes. It's such an important topic and at the very least the conversations you're having can only help to improve the sport, and make the issue more visible, so thank you so much for doing that. Do you want to remind us where people can find you, and is there anything coming up in the next week or so that you want to promote?
Javier: Well, because this has been happening so fast, I am working now, and I'm happy I have a team of other skaters helping like Karina and others. We're constantly in touch, and trying to keep the platform, especially this month, but we will continue to do different actions and so I cannot give you a list of the upcoming list of skaters yet, but I can actually tell you tomorrow, we have Jackie [Wong] from RockerSkating, [Clara: Oh, cool!] and Sunday, we have the amazing David Wilson, choreographer and also someone who is open and proud and can tell us his story, because I feel someone that has been in the skating world for such a long time and has been through a lot of different experiences can offer a different vision and perspective of the skating, for sure.
Clara: Absolutely.
Javier: So I'm very excited for Sunday. Karina will be tomorrow, and I will be on Sunday with him.
Clara: Perfect, so everyone, don't forget to check those out. They'll be on the feed by then. And so, you are at @skateraya on Twitter and Instagram?
Javier: All platforms. Twitter, Instagram..
Clara: Friendster, Myspace...
Javier: Most of them, yeah. I mean I don't even know if I have them anymore...
Clara: Everything else will be on @skateproud and your website is skateproud.com.
Javier: Correct.
Clara: Cool. Awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us.
Javier: Of course. It was a pleasure.
Clara: I'm very excited for all the interviews.
Javier: Thank you very much, and thank you for giving us support and for sharing us as well. I feel this is work from everybody and all of the platforms that figure skating lovers and followers for sure.